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Propublica Article. Billionaires that don't pay income taxes.


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Looks like Trump ain't the only one...

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.

Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

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What's the old saying? Lies, damned lies and statistics. That's what that article is. In summary they are arguing for a federal property tax. Whatever they call it it's property tax just like wha

Most of the people you listed are big liberals and donate heavily to the democrat party.  Do you really think any meaningful legislation will be put forth by Biden and company to tax them more?   It w

Conservatives: Bitch and moan about low income earners paying zero taxes, will fight to the death to continue to allow billionaires to avoid paying taxes. 

4 minutes ago, carolina_corpsman said:

This is why the whole "tax the rich" idea is flawed. Many wealthy people spend a lot of money protecting their money. 

Not saying anything about it being illegal. But you find nothing wrong with super wealthy paying a a few to zero percent effective tax rate?

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12 minutes ago, Spur's Addiction said:

Not saying anything about it being illegal. But you find nothing wrong with super wealthy paying a a few to zero percent effective tax rate?

Good for them, I wish I could do the same. I try to shelter my money from taxes why can't they?

 

Fair tax would actually mean that they paid their "fair share" and would eliminate the loop holes. 

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10 minutes ago, Spur's Addiction said:

Not saying anything about it being illegal. But you find nothing wrong with super wealthy paying a a few to zero percent effective tax rate?

we are not taxed on our wealth as much as we are taxed on our actual income

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Most of the people you listed are big liberals and donate heavily to the democrat party.  Do you really think any meaningful legislation will be put forth by Biden and company to tax them more?   It will be lip service, but the loopholes will not be closed so it will in effect do nothing.  As far as taxing corporations, the ones that are publicly traded answer to their stockholders and investors.  If you tax them more they make up the difference in how much they pay out in salaries and benefits to offset the bottom line to keep their investors happy and keep that capitol coming in.  As far as taxing the wealthy individuals more, I am not sure how much that will accomplish.  It is not like any of them are just taking that money and burying it in their backyard, they are using it to make more money by investing it back into the market in terms of funding many other companies.  It is easy to sit back and say tax the rich, but they are the job creators in our country.  Look at the shear number of people Bezos supplies with jobs and all of the ancillary jobs that come from his distribution centers.  There are companies that build them and lots of people make money when one is built from the actual construction workers to supply companies etc.  A fair tax/ consumption tax would allow people to control how much they are paying in taxes and also get rid of a lot of the loophole issues that allow them to pay $0 in federal taxes.  The democrat party has done and excellent job of painting wealthy people as the bad guy and creating a huge wealth envy culture in our country.  The irony is many of the uber wealthy are democrats.  

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Senator Wyden's proposal would fix this. He wants to tax unrealized capital gains. All these guys are doing is borrowing off their capital gains and living like kings off of that. Its not taxable because its not income.

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You are inherited $10 million worth of assets in the stock market that doesn't pay dividends. In 10 years the value grows to over $100 million.

To live your life you just borrow on the margin with a bank. In the above example,  you easily borrow $1 million against the $100 Mill in assets, and you dont pay a dime in taxes on that because its not wages. You can use that $1 mill anyway you want.

It just gets compounded year after year, as they take some of their unrealized capital gains and reinvest and build their wealth to borrow more next year.

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Wyden's proposal would tax these gains at 30%, treating it like regular income. Which it is.

 

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Just now, Tastylicks said:

Senator Wyden's proposal would fix this. He wants to tax unrealized capital gains. All these guys are doing is borrowing off their capital gains and living like kings off of that. Its not taxable because its not income.

-

You are inherited $10 million worth of assets in the stock market that doesn't pay dividends. In 10 years the value grows to over $100 million.

To live your life you just borrow on the margin with a bank. In the above example,  you easily borrow $1 million against the $100 Mill in assets, and you dont pay a dime in taxes on that because its not wages. You can use that $1 mill anyway you want.

It just gets compounded year after year, as they take some oftheir unrealized capital gains and reinvest and build their wealth to borrow more next year.

-

Wyden's proposal would tax these gains at 30%, treating it like regular income. Which it is.

 

tax unrealized gains?  That is ridiculous...what you describe above can be done with life insurance as well lol....how does his plan address losses in the stock market? Will that be seen as a tax credit?  

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1 hour ago, carolina_corpsman said:

Good for them, I wish I could do the same. I try to shelter my money from taxes why can't they?

 

Fair tax would actually mean that they paid their "fair share" and would eliminate the loop holes. 

I agree 100% with closing loopholes. 

35 minutes ago, STS said:

we are not taxed on our wealth as much as we are taxed on our actual income

So most of the folks on the list earned their wealth (weren't born into it). That would be income, yet they pay very little. 

17 minutes ago, Longhaul said:

Most of the people you listed are big liberals and donate heavily to the democrat party.  Do you really think any meaningful legislation will be put forth by Biden and company to tax them more?   It will be lip service, but the loopholes will not be closed so it will in effect do nothing.  As far as taxing corporations, the ones that are publicly traded answer to their stockholders and investors.  If you tax them more they make up the difference in how much they pay out in salaries and benefits to offset the bottom line to keep their investors happy and keep that capitol coming in.  As far as taxing the wealthy individuals more, I am not sure how much that will accomplish.  It is not like any of them are just taking that money and burying it in their backyard, they are using it to make more money by investing it back into the market in terms of funding many other companies.  It is easy to sit back and say tax the rich, but they are the job creators in our country.  Look at the shear number of people Bezos supplies with jobs and all of the ancillary jobs that come from his distribution centers.  There are companies that build them and lots of people make money when one is built from the actual construction workers to supply companies etc.  A fair tax/ consumption tax would allow people to control how much they are paying in taxes and also get rid of a lot of the loophole issues that allow them to pay $0 in federal taxes.  The democrat party has done and excellent job of painting wealthy people as the bad guy and creating a huge wealth envy culture in our country.  The irony is many of the uber wealthy are democrats.  

Never said anything about dem or rep, or the corporate tax rate. 

And with your regards to trickle down economics. It doesn't work. Otherwise the wealth gap in this country would not be skyrockting.

-999x-999.gif&f=1&nofb=1

trickledown2.gif&f=1&nofb=1

tenor.gif?itemid=10101488&f=1&nofb=1

 

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3 minutes ago, STS said:

tax unrealized gains?  That is ridiculous...what you describe above can be done with life insurance as well lol....how does his plan address losses in the stock market? Will that be seen as a tax credit?  

realized capital losses are already tax deductable

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Just now, Tastylicks said:

realized capital losses are already tax deductable

yes but only when they are realized...this is wanting to tax things that are unrealized which is another way of taxing wealth as opposed to taxing income

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Just now, STS said:

yes but only when they are realized...this is wanting to tax things that are unrealized which is another way of taxing wealth as opposed to taxing income

Right. But who the hell would hold onto assets year after year if all it is doing is losing value?

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Just now, Spur's Addiction said:

I agree 100% with closing loopholes. 

So most of the folks on the list earned their wealth (weren't born into it). That would be income, yet they pay very little. 

Never said anything about dem or rep, or the corporate tax rate. 

And with your regards to trickle down economics. It doesn't work. Otherwise the wealth gap in this country would not be skyrockting.

-999x-999.gif&f=1&nofb=1

trickledown2.gif&f=1&nofb=1

tenor.gif?itemid=10101488&f=1&nofb=1

 

you do realize that for the most part this money was already taxed once prior to it being invested...how many times you want to tax a dollar?  I make 1 dollar a day and then after taxes it drops to 0.65...then I invest that money into a stock and the growth is taxed again at same rate?  This is just a way to tax wealth as opposed to income and I guess you are happy with stifling investment

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Just now, Tastylicks said:

Right. But who the hell would hold onto assets year after year if all it is doing is losing value?

well I would potentially if the capital gains tax rate is returned to 30%...need to harvest as many losses to off set gains to avoid the tax liability...it is not year after year holding onto it, but one has to make a transaction to trigger a bill from Uncle Sam so tax planning is possible...when you tax based on Value it will stifle investment b/c it adds more risk

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5 minutes ago, STS said:

you do realize that for the most part this money was already taxed once prior to it being invested...how many times you want to tax a dollar?  I make 1 dollar a day and then after taxes it drops to 0.65...then I invest that money into a stock and the growth is taxed again at same rate?  This is just a way to tax wealth as opposed to income and I guess you are happy with stifling investment

Then, they will tax it again when you die...

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8 minutes ago, STS said:

well I would potentially if the capital gains tax rate is returned to 30%...need to harvest as many losses to off set gains to avoid the tax liability...it is not year after year holding onto it, but one has to make a transaction to trigger a bill from Uncle Sam so tax planning is possible...when you tax based on Value it will stifle investment b/c it adds more risk

No you wouldn't. Because you would lose your ability to borrow against capital gains. No bank is going to offer that to someone operating at a loss

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Just now, Tastylicks said:

No you wouldn't. Because you would lose your ability to borrow against capital gains

say what? I would definitely keep losers to offset at dollar for dollar gains to avoid taxes on unrealized gains as opposed to cashing out with a 30% hit...Just call it what it is... a tax on wealth as opposed to income...if what you are talking about happens, then invest in life insurance companies b/c you can do the exact same thing and is 100% tax free (assuming you purchased with post-tax money)

just wait until the government comes for retirement accounts...that will really suck but I am sure it is coming as well

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14 minutes ago, STS said:

you do realize that for the most part this money was already taxed once prior to it being invested...how many times you want to tax a dollar?  I make 1 dollar a day and then after taxes it drops to 0.65...then I invest that money into a stock and the growth is taxed again at same rate?  This is just a way to tax wealth as opposed to income and I guess you are happy with stifling investment

Expect these people do not make 1 dollar a day. They make millions that barely get taxed because of loopholes.  

My comment was around income. If these people earned their money (income) how do they avoid paying taxes on it?

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Just now, Spur's Addiction said:

Expect these people do not make 1 dollar a day. They make millions that barely get taxed because of loopholes.  

My comment was around income. If these people earned their money (income) how do they avoid paying taxes on it?

you avoid it by harvesting losses to offset your gains...anyone can do it

and the values above were illustrative which I thought was blatantly obvious...guess not

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Just now, Spur's Addiction said:

Conservatives:

Bitch and moan about low income earners paying zero taxes, will fight to the death to continue to allow billionaires to avoid paying taxes. 

you continue to ignore the fact that the money has already been taxed prior

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9 minutes ago, STS said:

you continue to ignore the fact that the money has already been taxed prior

How so?

I guess we will find out. 

'In the coming months, ProPublica will use the IRS data we have obtained to explore in detail how the ultrawealthy avoid taxes, exploit loopholes and escape scrutiny from federal auditors."

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12 minutes ago, STS said:

you continue to ignore the fact that the money has already been taxed prior

Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?

In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”

In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.

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1 hour ago, Spur's Addiction said:

Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?

In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”

In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.

Yes, the problem is tax laws.   Not conservatives.  Not Republicans.  Not rich people. 

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47 minutes ago, Spur's Addiction said:

Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?

In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”

In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.

what is your beef?  that is the current tax law...he offset his gains with losses as is done in every mutual fund and hedge fund every day...I don't give a dang about his wealth b/c we do not tax that in the United States (or at least not yet) but I am sure it is coming and I think it is ridiculous...the government takes and wastes enough of the taxpayers money as it is 

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