Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
FeatheredCock

Should Gamecocks men's basketball shut the season down

Recommended Posts

Will this team suffering so much with Covid-19 injuries so far behind playing games. Should they shut it down? Just wondering on how you all feel. Lot of heat on the program past few years and with all what has been happing with Vovid-19. What you all say? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been supporting Frank Martin an long time even before  an lot of fans was on board, I am beginning to think that the program may need an fresh start.  The COVID issue is an mystery as to why they are having so many people with positive test.   As to where the program goes in the future is anyone's guess I feel for the coaches, but after an while you have to say they share the responsibility to make sure the players are being safe. 

I think they just should shut down the MEN'S program for the year, and try  and get this under control, I wouldn't like it but you have to do what is going to keep people safe these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I have been supporting Frank Martin an long time even before  an lot of fans was on board, I am beginning to think that the program may need an fresh start.  The COVID issue is an mystery as to why they are having so many people with positive test.   As to where the program goes in the future is anyone's guess I feel for the coaches, but after an while you have to say they share the responsibility to make sure the players are being safe. 

I think they just should shut down the MEN'S program for the year, and try  and get this under control, I wouldn't like it but you have to do what is going to keep people safe these days.

I have also been a long time Frank Martin supporter.  I'm also beginning to believe that we might need to go in another direction.  That being said I don't think we can fire him just after stroking "all gas no brakes" Muschamp a check for 13 million.

  • High Five 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I have been supporting Frank Martin an long time even before  an lot of fans was on board, I am beginning to think that the program may need an fresh start.  The COVID issue is an mystery as to why they are having so many people with positive test.   As to where the program goes in the future is anyone's guess I feel for the coaches, but after an while you have to say they share the responsibility to make sure the players are being safe. 

I think they just should shut down the MEN'S program for the year, and try  and get this under control, I wouldn't like it but you have to do what is going to keep people safe these days.

 

43 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg said:

I have also been a long time Frank Martin supporter.  I'm also beginning to believe that we might need to go in another direction.  That being said I don't think we can fire him just after stroking "all gas no brakes" Muschamp a check for 13 million.

I, too, fall into that category (of a LONG time Frank supporter and staunch advocate, yet currently wavering in my support).  I still think Frank is one of the best coaches in the game, but I'm not entirely certain that he's the guy for our future.  I wish I felt differently... I truly do.  Perhaps a few additional games will put me in a better frame of mind, IDK... but I'm right there with both of you at the moment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg said:

I have also been a long time Frank Martin supporter.  I'm also beginning to believe that we might need to go in another direction.  That being said I don't think we can fire him just after stroking "all gas no brakes" Muschamp a check for 13 million.

     The real mistake with Muschamp was that they should have put in his contract you have to have an agreement not  to got to another  school in the SEC , within 5 years or we don't owe you anything.   They really went to sleep on his deal,   Should also read that must have min 6 wins per year or can be fired without any money. He really played Tanner and the University.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, doublea1971 said:

 

I, too, fall into that category (of a LONG time Frank supporter and staunch advocate, yet currently wavering in my support).  I still think Frank is one of the best coaches in the game, but I'm not entirely certain that he's the guy for our future.  I wish I felt differently... I truly do.  Perhaps a few additional games will put me in a better frame of mind, IDK... but I'm right there with both of you at the moment.

Yeah, I'm just not convinced that most athletes in this day and age want to play the type of basketball Frank coaches.  I mean his system works but for it to work you have to find the right players and they have to stick around 3-4 years and for whatever reasons Frank has had a lot of attrition.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg said:

Yeah, I'm just not convinced that most athletes in this day and age want to play the type of basketball Frank coaches.  I mean his system works but for it to work you have to find the right players and they have to stick around 3-4 years and for whatever reasons Frank has had a lot of attrition.  

  I just hate it for MARTIN , such an standup guy .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg said:

Yeah, I'm just not convinced that most athletes in this day and age want to play the type of basketball Frank coaches.  I mean his system works but for it to work you have to find the right players and they have to stick around 3-4 years and for whatever reasons Frank has had a lot of attrition.  

It's Frank himself, unfortunately.  Look at the success that Frank's former assistant/Bob Huggins assistant, Brad Underwood has seen at Illinois (last year).  He's getting top notch recruits at a school that hasn't seen a lot of success in the last 6-7 years.

Again, I wish I didn't have to say these things... Its just becoming plain as it can be.  Frank Martin is sort of like the Bob Knight of today.  A guy that is an incredible coach, teacher, etc., but just doesn't motivate the kids in the same way that he once did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've also been a Martin apologist for a long time. I'm definitely discouraged with our results so far, but without being an insider, I'm having trouble figuring out where to place the blame. Ultimately, it lands on Frank's shoulders, but if a lot of the struggle is due to things out of his control (ie Covid) I don't think he is to the point of coaching for his job. If this was a normal year and we were able to practice/play in full, I would probably feel differently though. All that said, I'm not necessarily opposed to making a coaching change. I just question who we could get. I don't think we could make a hire like we did when we hired Frank. I don't think there are a lot of established coaches willing to take this job, and I fear going the route of flash-in-the-pan mid-major coach, a la Darrin Horn. Part of me says to go after Mike Boynton, but that's really just because of familiarity with him. Also, not sure he'd be willing to leave Okie State. I just don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, markymark550 said:

I've also been a Martin apologist for a long time. I'm definitely discouraged with our results so far, but without being an insider, I'm having trouble figuring out where to place the blame. Ultimately, it lands on Frank's shoulders, but if a lot of the struggle is due to things out of his control (ie Covid) I don't think he is to the point of coaching for his job. If this was a normal year and we were able to practice/play in full, I would probably feel differently though. All that said, I'm not necessarily opposed to making a coaching change. I just question who we could get. I don't think we could make a hire like we did when we hired Frank. I don't think there are a lot of established coaches willing to take this job, and I fear going the route of flash-in-the-pan mid-major coach, a la Darrin Horn. Part of me says to go after Mike Boynton, but that's really just because of familiarity with him. Also, not sure he'd be willing to leave Okie State. I just don't know.

Boynton's a good coach, and his players really seem to like him.  I would imagine if we were to hire him that the SEC would quickly chew him up and spit him out.  Too much pressure to win too soon, and I'm not 100% certain he's got the reputation in this neck of the woods to recruit well.  Those things bode poorly for a coach, even if he's a home town hero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, doublea1971 said:

It's Frank himself, unfortunately.  Look at the success that Frank's former assistant/Bob Huggins assistant, Brad Underwood has seen at Illinois (last year).  He's getting top notch recruits at a school that hasn't seen a lot of success in the last 6-7 years.

Again, I wish I didn't have to say these things... Its just becoming plain as it can be.  Frank Martin is sort of like the Bob Knight of today.  A guy that is an incredible coach, teacher, etc., but just doesn't motivate the kids in the same way that he once did.

The reality of the situation is that constantly screaming at someone, constantly glaring at them, incessant cussing and name calling, public belittling in front of their teammates, fellow students and fans...IS NOT MOTIVATING! No one benefits...not the player, the team, school, fans...no one. Its embarrassing behavior...it isn't 'toughness'. It doesn't translate to wins...tournament invites...recruits...championships...it is wholly unnecessary...and as has been proven again and again and again with Martin...is in fact counter-productive.  

Every year I watch the tournament we aren't in and I am amazed at the number of teams who simply play the game of basketball better than we do. Shoot better than we do. Shoot free throws better than we do. Run an offense better than we do...all while playing as hard as we do...and yet all these coaches and teams who are winning all these games...enough games to be in the dance in the first place...never seem to feel the need to constantly belittle and 'stink eye' and scream...or worse check out and sit there pouting like a third grader...to get their kids to play hard and win games. 

Being demanding is one thing...all D1 coaches are demanding...Dawn Staley is fucking demanding...being the Great Santini is another ball of wax completely. 

I grew up playing organized football in Columbia SC from the time I was in fourth grade through high school and then coached youth sports...along with my own kids...for the better part of the last 20 years in my community here on the Outer Banks...up until my kids started elite travel and high school sports...where better coaching/professionals were the better option...soccer, baseball, basketball and football. My son played...among other things...travel lacrosse out of Virginia from the 6th grade until he graduated High School...and then a couple years of club Lacrosse while at NC State...played in every top level tournament on the east coast from New Jersey to Florida...countless tournaments with teams from all over the country and Canada. My daughter played AAU basketball all over the Hampton Roads area of Virginia while in middle school and then travel lacrosse out of Virginia for the last four years...been to dozens of tournaments and showcases in and around Maryland, Delaware and both Carolina's...won tournaments from Raleigh to Rehoboth Beach to Emerald Isle. Add all this to a life time of watching and following sports of all kinds...and at no time have I ever seen a kid/athlete motivated by being belittled or called a derogatory name...ever....not when Bob Knight was doing it...at least he won games...and sure as shit not since Martin has been here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, LBC said:

The reality of the situation is that constantly screaming at someone, constantly glaring at them, incessant cussing and name calling, public belittling in front of their teammates, fellow students and fans...IS NOT MOTIVATING! No one benefits...not the player, the team, school, fans...no one. Its embarrassing behavior...it isn't 'toughness'. It doesn't translate to wins...tournament invites...recruits...championships...it is wholly unnecessary...and as has been proven again and again and again with Martin...is in fact counter-productive.  

Every year I watch the tournament we aren't in and I am amazed at the number of teams who simply play the game of basketball better than we do. Shoot better than we do. Shoot free throws better than we do. Run an offense better than we do...all while playing as hard as we do...and yet all these coaches and teams who are winning all these games...enough games to be in the dance in the first place...never seem to feel the need to constantly belittle and 'stink eye' and scream...or worse check out and sit there pouting like a third grader...to get their kids to play hard and win games. 

Being demanding is one thing...all D1 coaches are demanding...Dawn Staley is fucking demanding...being the Great Santini is another ball of wax completely. 

I grew up playing organized football in Columbia SC from the time I was in fourth grade through high school and then coached youth sports...along with my own kids...for the better part of the last 20 years in my community here on the Outer Banks...up until my kids started elite travel and high school sports...where better coaching/professionals were the better option...soccer, baseball, basketball and football. My son played...among other things...travel lacrosse out of Virginia from the 6th grade until he graduated High School...and then a couple years of club Lacrosse while at NC State...played in every top level tournament on the east coast from New Jersey to Florida...countless tournaments with teams from all over the country and Canada. My daughter played AAU basketball all over the Hampton Roads area of Virginia while in middle school and then travel lacrosse out of Virginia for the last four years...been to dozens of tournaments and showcases in and around Maryland, Delaware and both Carolina's...won tournaments from Raleigh to Rehoboth Beach to Emerald Isle. Add all this to a life time of watching and following sports of all kinds...and at no time have I ever seen a kid/athlete motivated by being belittled or called a derogatory name...ever....not when Bob Knight was doing it...at least he won games...and sure as shit not since Martin has been here. 

@LBC, I'd have to say that the players who choose to come and play at USC would disagree with your characterization of them.  (And I've talked with a lot of them).  They ARE motivated by Frank and what he does, and they DO respond to him.  Despite the stereotype lens that he's pictured through, Frank is actually quite the caring coach, father, and man.  His former players (and I'm personal friends with a few from his days at KState too) all seem to say exactly the same thing, that he's tough on them, but he also will go out of his way to help them and be with them when they need it (and that applies to YEARS after they have graduated and gone on to other things in life as well).  They stick with Coach Martin and are adamant about how good of a motivator he actually is.

I agree with the reason you responded... that Frank has perhaps met the end of the road as head coach at USC (though it is doubtful that will come THIS season, given the buyout for Will Muschamp), but I cannot say I agree with the highlighted section of your opinion above.  Coach Martin is in the media here, and is as a result in front of your eyes more.  But there are PLENTY of Coaches out there who do the things that I've highlighted above.  (As a prime example, look at the guy who many felt should have been coaching here at USC instead of Frank Martin - Gregg Marshall.  He's just been run out of town because he supposedly was physically and verbally abusive to players - both at Wichita State and at Winthrop). [https://www.si.com/college/2020/11/17/gregg-marshall-resigns-wichita-state-abuse-allegations].  Coach K at Duke has had similar accusations thrown at him from time to time.

I'm not trying to argue with you here in this thread... that's not my purpose in responding.  Just want to point out the fact that Frank Martin's style is NOT atypical of what you find in many different coaches.  He's just gotten a much bigger reputation for it, and that was mostly because of the ESPN feature of the Frank Martin "Crazy Eyes/Stare" feature that they used to do every night when he was at KState.  

I will agree with some of the other things you say, including the "shoot better than we do... shoot free throws better than we do... Run an offense better than we do" stuff.

But I said to begin with (earlier in this thread), I'm a Frank Martin apologist.  I'm just, unfortunately, seeing the end of the road for him as a Gamecock head coach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, doublea1971 said:

Boynton's a good coach, and his players really seem to like him.  I would imagine if we were to hire him that the SEC would quickly chew him up and spit him out.  Too much pressure to win too soon, and I'm not 100% certain he's got the reputation in this neck of the woods to recruit well.  Those things bode poorly for a coach, even if he's a home town hero.

You're probably right that this isn't the job for Boynton. If I were the AD, I would still make him turn us down before looking at anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Long-time Frank supporter and still am.

Frank is a smart guy and has really toned down his act. To the extent that he can still be a little rough on the kids, they seem to really respond and genuinely love the man. That was obvious with the Final Four team.

The knock is the NCAA tournament appearances. We seem to be really close every year without getting over the hump. This year it is covid, which has limited the games and practices - and Frank's teams need more time to gel than most.

But we have some really good players this year and just need to get some games under our belt. If we still are struggling at the end of the year, then maybe I am wrong.

But I like the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll join the chorus of Frank Martin fans who are sensing the end. I don't know if it's his bouts with Covid or if it's the grind of the SEC and not being able to win enough, but he definitely seems out of sorts and exhausted. I've noticed it to varying degrees for a few years now and initially thought it was his knee pain, but he had that fixed. Now I'm wondering if it's not just the realization that he can't win enough games to make more progress here. 

I do think that without Covid, this years team had a real shot at making the tournament again (one of them), but maybe that's just naive optimism on my part. I know that if we have to start over, we won't see the tourney for another long while. And I have zero names I think we pursue (Mike Boynton is an easy one but is this really his kind of gig?). We'd probably go after a young up-and-comer again and hope for better than Darrin Horn (God I hate that guy). Sigh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, gAmkok said:

I'll join the chorus of Frank Martin fans who are sensing the end. I don't know if it's his bouts with Covid or if it's the grind of the SEC and not being able to win enough, but he definitely seems out of sorts and exhausted. I've noticed it to varying degrees for a few years now and initially thought it was his knee pain, but he had that fixed. Now I'm wondering if it's not just the realization that he can't win enough games to make more progress here. 

I do think that without Covid, this years team had a real shot at making the tournament again (one of them), but maybe that's just naive optimism on my part. I know that if we have to start over, we won't see the tourney for another long while. And I have zero names I think we pursue (Mike Boynton is an easy one but is this really his kind of gig?). We'd probably go after a young up-and-comer again and hope for better than Darrin Horn (God I hate that guy). Sigh

I think the fatigue that people are seeing is really frustration. Frank has worked hard and has a solid program that just seems snakebit.

If we replace Frank, the next coach will not be as good - and we will be in the tourney next year with a super nucleus of Couisnard, Lawson, Minaya and Bryant. We do not lose anybody,

And next year, Covid will be gone. Plenty of practices, summer pro-am, veteran team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ace Dilcock said:

I think the fatigue that people are seeing is really frustration. Frank has worked hard and has a solid program that just seems snakebit.

If we replace Frank, the next coach will not be as good - and we will be in the tourney next year with a super nucleus of Couisnard, Lawson, Minaya and Bryant. We do not lose anybody,

And next year, Covid will be gone. Plenty of practices, summer pro-am, veteran team.

It would be amazing if you're right about any of this. Hoping you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, markymark550 said:

I've also been a Martin apologist for a long time. I'm definitely discouraged with our results so far, but without being an insider, I'm having trouble figuring out where to place the blame. Ultimately, it lands on Frank's shoulders, but if a lot of the struggle is due to things out of his control (ie Covid) I don't think he is to the point of coaching for his job. If this was a normal year and we were able to practice/play in full, I would probably feel differently though. All that said, I'm not necessarily opposed to making a coaching change. I just question who we could get. I don't think we could make a hire like we did when we hired Frank. I don't think there are a lot of established coaches willing to take this job, and I fear going the route of flash-in-the-pan mid-major coach, a la Darrin Horn. Part of me says to go after Mike Boynton, but that's really just because of familiarity with him. Also, not sure he'd be willing to leave Okie State. I just don't know.

I Agree I think if you are going to make an change  Mike Boynton  would be an good hire, he still needs to prove himself, if we wait an couple of years might be able to get Smart out of TEXAS .  I hate Horn didn't work out I was high on him as well.  Then we got Frank I like the guy he run's an clean program but the kid's today just do not won't to play that style of basketball he has to change his style I think if he  is going to get the big name kids. What really is upsetting is the amount of talent in S.C. they he can't  get to come here to U.S.C.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I Agree I think if you are going to make an change  Mike Boynton  would be an good hire, he still needs to prove himself, if we wait an couple of years might be able to get Smart out of TEXAS .  I hate Horn didn't work out I was high on him as well.  Then we got Frank I like the guy he run's an clean program but the kid's today just do not won't to play that style of basketball he has to change his style I think if he  is going to get the big name kids. What really is upsetting is the amount of talent in S.C. they he can't  get to come here to U.S.C.   

Shaka Smart was REALLY high on my list of hires after the debacle of the man who (for me... you named him above) shall remain nameless, but unfortunately our AD didn't see things the same way I did.  I was quite geeked about Frank Martin being chosen, and still am quite geeked about Frank as a Coach.  

Anthony Grant (who's a very close friend to Coach Martin) is another guy I'd love to see as HC here should things not work out for Coach Martin to continue.  He had a tough time at Alabama in his last few years, but much of that was (like Coach Martin) not of his own doing.  But his record otherwise, is quite stellar, and the guy can flat out coach a basketball team.

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope Coach Martin can turn this ship around this year because there's too much talent on the squad for him not to be able to.  I'm not calling for Coach Martin's head yet.  He's got at least one more season, given the "snake-bit" COVID problems we've had this year, but beyond that... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, doublea1971 said:

Shaka Smart was REALLY high on my list of hires after the debacle of the man who (for me... you named him above) shall remain nameless, but unfortunately our AD didn't see things the same way I did.  I was quite geeked about Frank Martin being chosen, and still am quite geeked about Frank as a Coach.  

Anthony Grant (who's a very close friend to Coach Martin) is another guy I'd love to see as HC here should things not work out for Coach Martin to continue.  He had a tough time at Alabama in his last few years, but much of that was (like Coach Martin) not of his own doing.  But his record otherwise, is quite stellar, and the guy can flat out coach a basketball team.

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope Coach Martin can turn this ship around this year because there's too much talent on the squad for him not to be able to.  I'm not calling for Coach Martin's head yet.  He's got at least one more season, given the "snake-bit" COVID problems we've had this year, but beyond that... 

I agree, he gets at least next year.  But with the possibility of Lawson and Bryant leaving after this year next year could be bad as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg said:

I agree, he gets at least next year.  But with the possibility of Lawson and Bryant leaving after this year next year could be bad as well.

We have been talking about Lawson leaving for each of the last two years. The Bryant talk is new - but there are a lot of athletes in the NBA and he needs to improve his offensive game to make it. In particular, his shooting.

We returned everyone but Kotsar off last year's team and should get everyone back again. If we can just get some practices and games in, we will have something. Getting McCreary back tonight gives us another big option - I think that the offensive will be better with him in the line-up.

But the area that is hurting us is the Defense - it takes time for everyone to start working together, kinda like an O Line needing continuity and enough PT to gel as a unit. I think we will be a dangerous team by season's end - I just hope it is not too late to save the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

GCF Copyright

Copyright © 2009-2020 GamecockFanatics.com - All Rights Reserved. GameCock Fanatics is an independent, fan based website. This forum is not sponsored by, or affiliated with, the University of South Carolina, or any other organization.

GamecocksFanatics.com

Youtube-Logo.jpg

×
×
  • Create New...