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picknroll

A Quick Defense of Frank Martin

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Discipline is great.  Publicly belittling players with profanity is not.

 

Make more sense now?

No because you took my I don't get it completely out of context. The point I made was that you used an example of yelling working then said it wasn't working.

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Discipline. Coach Martin loves to give it, but can he take it when his boss applies it to him?

I'm sure Martin could take discipline if it were necessary. It's not though and this has now jeopardized his career. I'm sure you'd love it if your career were jeopardized when there are plenty of examples around of others doing the same thing and not being reprimanded.

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Dude if you're too lazy to do some research about the people you claim don't do the same thing, I can't help you. I've researched it. You haven't even scratched the surface of it.

 

If you've researched it, by all means share with the rest of us.

 

If you can't post the link, then I guess you can't prove your point.

 

I mean if your point is so obvious, it should take like one minute to post it, right?

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If you've researched it, by all means share with the rest of us.

 

If you can't post the link, then I guess you can't prove your point.

 

I mean if your point is so obvious, it should take like one minute to post it, right?

it would take you one minute to google search boeheim, coach k, coach cal, etc but you didn't do that before you started spouting off your nonsense.

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OK....it's getting too hot. Time to shut this down. We disagree. You're never going to convince me to the wimpified pseudo-moralistic point of view and I'm never going to convince you to let Martin be Martin. Go ahead and savage our coach and program to your hearts content, Shep. I'n sure you probably did the same thing to Horn. 

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Go ahead and savage our coach and program 

 

Yes, because publicly criticizing Ray Tanner, the current director of athletics for the entire University, in no way "savages the program" does it?

 

Tanner is the most successful coach of any sport that this University has ever had.  There are a ton of coaches that could learn from him.

 

And that's kind of why he's in the position that he's in.

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No need to let this play out for several more years. Martin and his staff are handcuffed and their credibility in recruiting is shattered. They will be much less effective than we need them to be from this point on, so Tanner should part with Martin amicably and hire another coach.

 

I am sick and tired of the disastrous condition of this basketball program. Here we go again. For decades our incompetent Board of Trustees, Athletics Department officials, and moronic fans have meddled around trying to pinch pennies here and there or otherwise interfering with whatever poor coach was dumb enough to come here. In Martin's case, he unfortunately chose to believe the shallow no good Eric Hyman who left him high and dry without any allies. I can't wish enough bad things for Hyman. JERK! Nevertheless, we finally get a great coach who is FINALLY showing some signs of turning this disastrous program around, and the mealy mouthed sermonizers have to go interfering again. 

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It was YOUR point.  And you want me to prove YOUR point? :lol:

 

I thought we were having a discussion here, I didn't know it was 2-on-1 WWE.

The point I'm making is that you don't do research. You just talk out your butt until someone disagrees and then instead of going and looking up stuff you expect them to spell it all out for you because you're too lazy to do it yourself. I'm not going to post anything on here. I'm simply going to tell you that Google is a great tool, and when you figure out how to use it, you'll really appreciate it!

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Just a quick glance down memory lane.....

 

King Dixon fires George Felton after just having a 21 win season...

 

King Dixon takes two or three months to hire a replacement for Felton, being publicly spurned by one coach after another making our program a national laughing stock as each week another coach says he's not interested in the South Carolina job....

 

Finally hires the prestigious Steve Newton... HA HA laughs on us

 

The dim witted Dixon is scrapped like dogfood....

 

Bob Marcum hired as AD..... scraps Newton and leaves, gets fired or something...period is too painful to recall

 

Mike McGee, a real but not infallible, AD is hired....

 

McGee hires Cremins, Cremins leaves 2 days later, hires Fogler, at odds with the AD at Vandy.

 

Mike McGee publicly tries to impose a winning standard not agreed to by Eddie Fogler fresh off an SEC Championship, running off the two time National Coach of the Year....

 

McGee hires Dufus Odum just as he is being chased out of the Wake Forest job...

 

McGee retires never to be heard from again...

 

The weak, easily impressionable, girly man, tarhole wannabe, Eric Hyman is hired...

 

Hyman refuses to send our pop band to support out NIT Championship team on National tv in Madison Square Garden because he wants to show he's not a weenie little girly man.....

 

Hyman extends and raises the contract of Dave Odom after years of  mediocrity and installs a by out agreement when no other school is remotely interested in the pallid zombie coach... 

 

The very next season after extending Odom's contract and giving him a big unnecessary raise, Hyman gutlessly fires Odum, listening to meddling ignorant fans crying for his release although Odum has finally recruited back to back solid recruiting classes.....

 

Hyman hires babyfaced and virtually unknown Darrin Horn for peanuts - the lowest paid head coach in the SEC - and the first man who said he'd take the job, instead of properly conducting a search for a prominent nationally recognizable coach who had a demonstrated pattern of success as a Major Div 1 coach.

 

Hyman extends Horn's contract and gives him a raise after one year even though Horn scheduled an embarrassingly weak out of conference slate of opponents, padding his victory total with creampuffs.

 

The incompetent Horn fails to support the long running Columbia Tip Off Club or do interviews with local media and therefore alienates reporters and fans.

 

When hard times arise, the cockroach Hyman throws Horn under the bus not having had a senior he recruited take the floor in a game, although Horn has actually done a respectable job recruiting and has not had enough time to develop his players. Again, whining of moronic impatient babylike fans influences gutless Hyman's decision.

 

In Hyman's only perceivable good act, he hires the ultra successful and nationally recognizable  but controversial Frank Martin, who takes a career risk leaving a successful established program to try to raise ours from the dead.

 

Then, breaking his word to Martin, Hyman mercifully leaves our program and I hope fire ants eat his eyeballs out. But he leaves Frank in the lurch with no allies in the Administration. 

 

Ray Tanner hired as AD with about the same administrative and executive credentials as King Dixon, but at least he prays out in the open a lot. 

 

The rest is now history.... Tanner undercuts the authority and credibility of Frank Martin and his staff, making it more difficult to control his team and casting aspersions over his future as our Head Coach which will be used against him in recruiting by our competitors ad nauseum, and leaving us with a hobbled ineffective coach and having to pay him big bucks. We'll probably struggle for 2 or 3 more years, fire Martin, and play fruitbasket turnover again.

 

Wonder who will be stupid enough to take the job then?

 

And that's why it ain't been great to be a Gamecock basketball fan for most of the last 40 years. 

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I sure hope you r wrong picknroll. I can see what you say happening but I hope u r wrong. I would like to believe Coach Martin can still recruit and achieve his goals.

Say what you want about Tanner but I support his decision. Why does any coach have to call his player an ass hole out in public like that? I don't care what kind of coach he is or anyone for that matter not just a coach but anyone, you don't call em that. Especially on national television so everyone can see. Profanity has always been the same and it has always got bad rep when it is said in the public eye like that. That isn't pussyfication. He could easily get the same point across without it. Just because other high profile coaches do it too doesnt make it right.

I believe Tanner was forced to do something. Many things played into his decision. Fans, warnings to Coach Martin and probably the #1 reason was his own personal belief that it was wrong. As AD of USC, that is his job.

I will leave with this. I don't know all the ins and outs of basketball like some people but i do know the ins and outs of being a human and if anybody talked to me that disrespectful, I would be facing assault charges.

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I sure hope you r wrong picknroll. I can see what you say happening but I hope u r wrong. I would like to believe Coach Martin can still recruit and achieve his goals.

 

Say what you want about Tanner but I support his decision. Why does any coach have to call his player an ass hole out in public like that? I don't care what kind of coach he is or anyone for that matter not just a coach but anyone, you don't call em that. Especially on national television so everyone can see. Profanity has always been the same and it has always got bad rep when it is said in the public eye like that. That isn't pussyfication. He could easily get the same point across without it. Just because other high profile coaches do it too doesnt make it right.

 

I believe Tanner was forced to do something. Many things played into his decision. Fans, warnings to Coach Martin and probably the #1 reason was his own personal belief that it was wrong. As AD of USC, that is his job.

 

I will leave with this. I don't know all the ins and outs of basketball like some people but i do know the ins and outs of being a human and if anybody talked to me that disrespectful, I would be facing assault charges.

 Read the thread with the commentary by Phil Kornblut, please.

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I read it.

 

I don't believe anybody wants Frank to change his ways. Just quit using the profanity. That's all. Are there repercussions from what has happened like you say. Maybe so. I hope they aren't as extreme as you say. I believe Coach Martin can still be who he is but stop with the profanity. Nothing good is coming from it. Can he not be himself without the profanity?

 

Only time will tell if it was as bad of a move as a lot of people are saying and hopefully USC can overcome the damage but I don't know.

 

I still say Martin was wrong to do what he did. Just my opinion.

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Hey, i respect your opinion. I watched Frank's news conference and he's dealing with this thing like a pro. I hope I am 100% wrong about this, but I feel we called attention to something that really wasn't that much of an issue. I'm not for profanity myself, and if he can bring this program around without the cussing more power to him.

 

But I just think people who buy tickets to sit behind the bench ought to realize that coaches cuss a lot. This happens all over the place - coach after coach after coach. This is really about the fact that we have a high profile coach and the media loves when he does this. They keep the camera trained on him hoping for it so they can exploit it and we, because some thin skinned, pollyannish fans think their little babies aren't going to grow up perfect because they heard Martin say a few cuss words, are making a whole lot more of this than it really is. And to me, we're shooting ourselves in the foot AGAIN. NEEDLESSLY. And it's stupid. 

 

I tell you what, let me follow you around for a day or two and I bet I can find a few things to criticize you for. Am I wrong? I know you would if you followed me around. It's easy to criticize other people - especially if he has to do the most important part of his job in front of fans and tv cameras. But that part of Martin's job only amounts to about 2% of his total job. 98% of the time you don't know what he does for those kids. They love him to death. They'd run through a brick wall for Frank Martin. Nobody ever talks about that. People get all incensed and holier than thou because he says a few cuss words.  

 

I just want a good basketball program. Ours has sucked for most of the last 40 years and all of the last 20 years. So can we please just leave the coach alone, let him do his freaking job, and make sure we all take care of the splinters in our own eyes for a change?

 

OK, glad I got that out. That's like 20 years of penned up rage... :rolleye0018_r191677:

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You most certainly would find lots to criticize if you follow me around.

 

Very valid points made. Like I said, I understand both sides. You have made your argument very convincingly and I clearly see it better. Bottom line is we all want to see the program succeed (some a lot more than others) and definitely this incident puts a halt to it for now. Can it recover with Martin at the helm? I think so. I surely hope so because he is that good. Or will it forever be stuck in the pits like it has been now for so long. I hope not.

 

I believe Tanner will prove to be one of the best ADS we have ever had and I have to believe this wasn't just a knee jerk reaction on his part. I'm sure it was well thought out and I'm certain Coach Martin was included in it the whole way. Maybe I am wrong. Time will tell.

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